Jim Norton and Lindy West Aren’t Talking About the Same Kinds of Rape Jokes

I think the debate here is fairly representative of debates generally between men and women: the two of them really aren’t talking about the same thing.

Jim Norton is arguing that nothing is sacred, everything should be open to ridicule, and that jokes about rape don’t make people go out and rape. Lindy, on the flip side, is arguing that rape jokes are generally in poor taste and contribute to rape culture. The problem, I think, is they’re not really talking about the same kinds of rape jokes.

I would point specifically to Norton’s reference of Joan Rivers’ set. While the reference is anecdotal, I’m inclined to think Rivers wasn’t mocking us for the 9/11 attacks, wasn’t mocking gays for getting AIDS, wasn’t, in essence, mocking the victims for being victims.[1. I could be wrong here, I’m merely speculating.] The whole process functions as a catharsis, which is basically Norton’s whole point: you can’t ban certain topics without damaging the role those jokes play as a release.

The problem is, as I said, they’re not talking about the same kinds of jokes, and Lindy knows this well enough. As she was introduced by Bell, he commented “she wrote the blog post” on the topic, and I think there were points in the debate where she could have been more clear on this. Just to reiterate her point: rape jokes where the victim is the butt of the joke are not okay.

I’m not sure if Norton fails to grasp the difference because he’s being willfully blind or just dumb[2. Or if she just hadn’t been clear, though if he had read her original piece – which he should have – she wouldn’t have to be.], but it’s clear he doesn’t grasp the difference. Or at least fails to grasp how that difference significantly affects the point he’s trying to make.

I’m not going to go rehash her entire blog post – she does a good job parsing the difference herself. It’s just worth pointing out, though, how often people on two sides of a nuanced debate fail to grasp what the other side is trying to say.